does anyone else feel that the real Karen Carpenter story was done a great injustice by this movie? was it the bad acting portrayal of Richard, or the work of the worst wig designer in hollywood that was the distraction?? the lip-syncing, maybe???

Yes, but the cinematography ...wow. It blew me away.

Dude, and don't forget the fashion! And the lighting...OH and the key grip work. That was sublime.

I always say, it was a nice idea, it's a pity on how crap the film turned out!

So true!

The Karen Carpenter Story T.V. Movie is just what it is, y'all. It is a rather cheesy t.v. movie which reflects the majority of the production values and whatnot of the era it was made in.

Shoot, I grew up watching really dreadful t.v. movies with my granny, so I know what I am talking about here.

I have this flick and I do not mind it because it is better than nothing. But, I think a far better movie could be made out of the story of The Carpenters.

We don't like some parts. But if Richard wasn't involoved, worser movie might be made.
If Richard didn't, we cannot watch real house, cars or outfits, and new music.
If Richard didn't, someone would have made a movie.

I heard Richard talk about this movie in Japan in '80s. I asked my university class mate who lived in the U.S. to record the movie for me when it repeated, but she didn't have the channel. Finally another Carpenters group friend sent me a copy and I could watch it a few years ago.

Thank you, Richard.

Sakura

I agree.



I agree.

Richard described the movie as a "docu-drama, with the emphasis on drama".

Hi!
I waited 15 years to find that movie aired here in Uruguay!
A couple of things caught my attention: Richard tryed so many times to avoid the subjet that Agnes could have had something to do (someone might think) in Karen´s disorder. You know, the way they were raised, the fact that they weren´t a touching and hugging family, etc.
At the beggining of Ray Coleman´s book we find that Levenkron said that when asked, Agnes rose and hugged Karen to show her that she loved her.
The same scene is different on The KC Story, we don´t see that hug, but an angry Agnes saying something like "you don´t understand our family, we don´t need to do that to show we love each other!"
Well, that doesn´t speack too well of a mother under Karen´s life´circunstances...
Why did Richard allowed that by then, being in touch with the whole proyect.
And what was what really happened during that sesion in Levenkron´s office?

I would believe the Coleman book over the movie. I think more than likely Agnes did go and hug Karen. I think Levenkron mentioned that it was such an emotional moment between mother/daughter that he had to look away because it was so intense. In the new BBC documentary, we see Joan saying that Agnes was very hurt that doctors told her she had to show love to Karen, because she loved Karen deeply and thought she already did.

I think life is complicated, and sometimes parents make mistakes even with the best of intentions. In my opinion Agnes totally loved Karen and loved her the best she could, like most moms.

I couldn't be more with

I agree...for years, feminists have been ranting about how anorexia is caused by lack of affection, patriarchy or seeing skinny models in magazines...but all the latest medical research indicates anorexia really just is a chemical imbalance in the brain...and it can be treated with hormone replacement and monitoring brain activity, rather than the way feminists hijacked rehabilitation centres in the 90s with their touchy-feely, "it's-not-your-fault" support groups which blamed parents and men...

Whether Agnes was affectionate or not...Karen would probably have had anorexia regardless...I'm beginning to think it's something you're born with...

I'm of the impression that Karen and Richard never had any doubts about their parents' love for them. Karen was dissatisfied with herself, not her mother.

Well, I wouldn't agree that anorexia is just a brain thing...I think it's mainly psychological and has a lot to do with life circumstances and one's personality...I just don't believe we should sit around blaming parents - even if some of their actions did contribute to their child developing anorexia.

I've never known anorexia to be cured with hormone replacement or by monitoring brain activity, where did you hear that?


And um, some feminists may be too extreme, but feminism overall is a good thing.

It's like animal rights. A good thing, but some groups--like PETA--can take a little far in the name of drawing attention to the cause. And it turns some people off. But the cause is a good and necessary thing.

I have also never heard of the hormone replacement thing. I personally think THAT is a little extreme.

it's too easy to blame parents. If only certain families were to blame, we would only have anorexia in one type of family. I think Karen had a body image problem, and wanted to look different than she could. Anyone can lose weight, but no one can shrink their bone structure. it would be nice if there were one reason (families realitonships) why any person has an eating disorder.

Well... this subject started with the KC Story movie. When I posted I didn´t want to get into the subject of blaming no one for what happened. What I found strange was that being Richard involved with the project, he did nothing about that scene that didn´t show Agnes hugging Karen. It might have left some viewers thinking bad about Agnes. I remember my brother, who´s not a fan, saying when he saw that scene " I understand now! It was her mother´s fault!". And then I had to enlight him to tell him the truth.
That scene is rather bitter, Karen (I mean Cynthia) was so broken, and her face made me wanna get my arms into de TV and hug her myself to save her life!
My english is rather poor and maybe not good enough to make myself clear in my point.
I don´t blame Agnes! Don´t missunderstand me, please!

I often wondered what Richard's mother thought of the way she was portrayed as it wasn't flattering. Wonder how upset she was when she saw the movie. I also wonder why they put fictional stuff in the movie? If ya ask me the true story of Karen and Richard would have even been better than adding things in that never happened. Just my opinion of course.

Hollywood drama. It's as easy as that.

Oh that's okay, Ale, we just deviated a bit from your original topic. It happens a lot.

And your English is great

But it was made for TV!

What's the difference?

So?! The network still thinks it needs fictional drama in order to get high ratings. The more drama, the more the public seems to be attracted to it.

They do it all the time! That's the nature of the business.

The difference is Hollywood...

Yeah... the network, not Hollywood, unless you were saying a Hollywood-LIKE drama and such.

Related news of the "Barbie Doll" KC Story:

Remembering Jim Lyons: 1960 - 2007
James Lyons, known for his frequent work with Todd Haynes, died last week in New York. The editor and actor starred in and edited Haynes' "Poison," winner of the Grand Jury Prize at the Sundance Film Festival in 1991. Lyons edited Haynes' other projects: "Superstar: The Karen Carpenter Story," "Dottie Gets Spanked," "Safe," "Velvet Goldmine" (for which he also co-wrote the story) and "Far From Heaven." He also edited Esther Robinson's Berlinale Teddy Award winning documentary "A Walk Into the Sea: Danny Williams and the Warhol Factory," which will have its U.S. premiere at the Tribeca Film Festival next week. Born in October of 1960, James Lyons was a member of Act Up and was treated for H.I.V. for many years. He died of cancer on Thursday in a New York City hospital.


Source: http://www.IndieWire.com

Absolutely spot on.

Karen unfortunately was in her own cocoon & no matter what love or affection was shown by any family she saw herself as not complete & whilst she had her music she still missed a partner/husband & blamed this on herself, something was wrong with her not the outside world.

Is this too deep?

I think Richard was quite satisfied to leave that clip in where his mother didn't hug Karen because it made him out in a better light & people jumped to conclusions that she wasn't loved by her parents.

Why? Because in my opinion he was a little jealous of her fame through her voice which in the public's eyes far outweighed his musical genius.

I've only watched this film a couple of times since it was shown in the UK on New Years Eve 1989, however, a few things have always stuck with me about it.

During the opening credits, Richard Carpenter as Executive Producer and Louise Fletcher who played Agnes Carpenter get more prominence than Cynthia Gibb, who played Karen. I would have thought "Cynthia Gibb as Karen Carpenter" would have been more appropriate during the opening credits, rather than "Louise Fletcher as Agnes". Instead Cynthia's name appears briefly on the screen before Mitchell Anderson who played Richard, but their characters are not stated. Maybe I am reading too much into it, but I did think it odd that the only actor to have the name of their character appear on screen was the part of the mother.

During the scene with the Doctor, he talks about Karen feeling she has no control over her life "especially since the divorce". Karen died a married woman and I think it strange to give the impression otherwise in a film about her life. I also felt "This Masquerade" being played during the wedding scenes to be rather harsh. To add to all this, Tom Burris becomes "Bob Knight" !!

The film is ok, but the "live performances" involved recordings which meant Karen was singing both the lead and backing vocals. This together with the sound of a drummer hitting the drums, with their drum sticks still in mid air just made no sense. Richard is renowned for his perfectionism, so how this film ended up the way it did is a total mystery.

Maybe he was still hurting way too much to have tackled such a project just six years after Karen's death.

I always think, what would Karen have thought of the movie?

Well... I feel they rushed too much the production of the movie. At least that´s the feeling I got. There are so many things that could have been better than they turned out to be. It was about the best female singer ever, and there will never be another voice like Karen´s, so... this movie should have been a huge production.

There´s an actress called Karen Allen (she also played Crista, the teacher who died in the Challenger explotion in -I think it was- 1989), I don´t remember what movie of hers it was, I only remember they were almost all the time in a sailing boat, and there was a killer with her, but my point is she was SO alike to Karen (our Karen), not only her face, her eyes, her mouth,... but she was all the time making gestures just like Karen´s, and giving those same looks with those beautiful big eyes filled with life, and it was so shocking that I even thought she was somehow doing it on pourpouse!. I remember thinking "I dont´n know who that actress is, but I bet she is a Carpenter´s fan!", and right after that I was sourprized to discover her name was Karen too! It would have been greate that Karen Allen would perform Karen´s role in the movie! Am I the only one who thought that way?

I think the reason for that is because Louise Fletcher was way more famous than Cynthia Gibb or Mitchell Anderson. So they made sure to mention her name prominently, so people might be attracted to the film. Didn't Louise Fletcher win an Oscar a while back?

Looking on IMDB now for you . . .


and yes she did and here's the proof:

Year Result Award Category/Recipient(s)
1976 Won Oscar Best Actress in a Leading Role
for: One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975)

Yeah, whenever I watch "Scrooged" I can almost think that's Karen Carpenter in the movie. Karen Allen would have been good to play KC at the time. They do look similar!

And I wonder if she has been in ANY other GOOD movie... or maybe it's me who has been watching mainly her crappy ones.

I have just watched The Amityville Horror with Margot Kidder and in this movie she reminds me of Karen a lot! She could have perfectly fit Karen's role in The Karen Carpenter Story... if it could possibly have been made in the seventies, of course, for in 1989 she was too old. (This remind me of that scene in the movie In & Out with Kevin Kline, when a friend of his tells him Barbra Streisand should not have acted in Yentl for she was "TOO OLD" at that time... and Kline goes for kicking his ass!). And something interesting about The Amityville Horror (which is a LAUGHABLE movie for the most part, although it features a couple of good scenes) is that the actor Michael Sacks kinda looks like Richard too!

but I once read this irreverent article about Margot Kidder, thought I'd post it. It's written by someone who does the tours around Hollywood:


"On Saturday April 20^th 1996, she was at Los Angeles International Airport, ready to board a flight to Phoenix. The flight wasn't leaving until the next day. She never got on. She (they say) intercepted a television crew from Nashville, and followed them through the airport. She would point at their equipment and scream, "I know you're after me and you're sending signals with those things!" She followed them into the Hertz Rent A Car, where she stayed for almost an hour, passing notes that read, "Drive my jacket 100 miles from here, and throw it." Next thing anyone knows, she's mumbling gibberish in a woodpile in Glendale.

She was discovered on Tuesday, April 23^rd, in the back yard of 412 Ross Avenue, in Glendale. Her hair had been hacked off with a razor blade, and what was left of it, was tied with a strip from a plastic grocery bag. Oh yeah, she had teeth missing. Turns out she lost her dental plate. It was sending her signals too, no doubt. The policeman said to her that she had better leave the woodpile, as there are black widow spiders there. Her reply? "Ha! There are much worse things than black widow spiders after me!"

They picked her up, checked her in to the hoo hoo hotel, aka The Olive View Medical Center in Sylmar.

The breakdown was probably caused by a lot of factors. She hadn't been in a hit film in ages. She had a terrible automobile accident, which left her spine damaged. Then her insurance company dropped her. She was so broke, she once peddled her jewelery up and down 47^th Street, in New York.

Margot seems fine now. She claims that her illness was manic depression, and she's been treated with acupuncture and therapy.

I forgot to mention that I met Margot once. I was sitting on Hollywood Boulevard - in the hearse I was driving, and she came up to me and asked about the tour - and said, "I should use this in my book." This was about a year before her breakdown. Don't know if she ever did mention the tour."

Yeah, she went woo woo for a while, I remember reading that in some magazine at that time. I might have thought "poor Margot, neither Superman can save her now" (it had nothing to do with Christopher Reeves accident, I think, her crisis happened before it, I believe). And someone told me she is now in Smallville (I haven't seen her, I don't watch it). Maybe it is the Lois Lane curse or whatever.

I haven't seen Louise Fletcher in anything else apart from those two films

I have, but I wouldn't recommend any of the other films with her that I watched. "Starting" with Exorcist II: The Heretic, ugh!

I keep thinking about the big screen movies......Coal Miner's Daughter, Ray, I Walk the Line.........too bad there couldn't have been a REALLY great theatrical release of the Carpenters......that would have been awesome.........with a soundtrack release.........

I always say that this movie should've been made in 05. Look at the biopics of Ray Charles and Johnny and June Cash. Excellent movies. Even Bobby Kennedy's movie, Bobby was excellent, although it didn't talk about his life, it talked about the events and excitement of him being president leading up to his assination. I think if this movie were made in 05 they would've found a lot of actors that were spitting images of the Carpenters and they're parents, and Richard would've had a tremendous say so in how the movie was depicted he probably would'v even directed or co-directed the movie as well as producing or executive producing the movie. This movie would've been great to come out around the time of her death as well reintroducing her to the younger generation.

Richard didn't want to be apart of the movie, he said many times before, and I think if he and not someone dead set on making the movie their way no matter if Richard was involved or not it would've been perfect as their music. He was in charge of the music, and hardly had a say so in the movie, I think because he didn't want a movie to be made about his sister shows, he always says that having that movie being made was a big mistake. I never know why, when he could've made it a better movie maybe it was the timing, maybe he didn't like it the way his story and his family were being portrayed so he wanted nothing to do with it. I really do wish Richard would go through and make a movie about his sister and make it a beautiful movie the way Walk the Line and Ray were so accurate to their lives. It would be great.

Richard Carpenter is credited as "Executive Producer" as far as I can remember, so he must have been able to have had a proper say surely ?

I also wish another film could be made. I think Karen's memory deserves something more than "The Karen Carpenter Story" film. It could also carry on the story with some of what happened after her death and how her family coped without her.

I must have missed that part, but everytime I read something or hear about the movie and Richard talks about it, it always sounds like it's with anger and regret. I think the film wasn't made to his liking, and I agree it would be great to see another better movie about the Carpenters, and not just Karen but Richard as well. But I think that's a stretch.

Richard's involvement with the TV movie could be perceived as "damage control". The film was going to be made with or without Richard, so he chose to get involved as a way of limiting the sensationalism. In the first draft of the script, Richard's quaalude abuse was not addressed, but he felt it wasn't fair that Karen's character was the only one who was depicted as having problems. He tried to make good choices around the film, and given the alternatives, I think he did.

I do wonder why he allowed really bad continuity errors though, such as the Made In America poster in 1970. I suppose it's only the fans who would notice that though

I also think it was a mistake to not show Agnes hugging Karen at the end when they're at the therapist's office. It just put Agnes in an even more heartless light than she already was portrayed. After all, this was his own mother at the end of the day.

Stephen

I have often thought that too. Agnes really isn't 'painted' well in the movie!! I suppose it came with the 'big' ending when she said 'I love you'!!!

That part makes me cry everytime I watch it. Does it do that to anyone else?