Toni's Take - Karen And Richard
LeadSister
21 Aug 2006
Toni's Take - Blog Page
August 20, 2006
KAREN AND RICHARD
Karen and Richard Carpenter had been making hits for A&M for a couple of years before we arrived. They were truly “superstars” of the A&M lot. I remember that Daryl and I were so impressed when we saw TWO of the very limited, very precious parking spaces with their names on them. Richard always drove some wonderful, perfectly detailed, shiny automobile. I remember in particular a Mercedes sports car, gleaming patent leather black, often parked in his space.
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Every now and then, I would catch a glimpse of Karen or Richard, and we would acknowledge each other with a wave or a nod, but rarely did we speak at any length. Karen and Richard were very reserved, and I certainly don’t blame them. At this stage in their careers, privacy was a luxury, and we never wanted to intrude. Also, they may have had reservations about this new “duo” on the A&M lot.
-
We ended up sharing the same management team, and the same wonderful recording engineer, Roger Young. I’m not going to name their managers, because I believe they were at least partially responsible for Karen’s struggle with anorexia. I could be wrong about this, but remember what I’ve told you...they don’t call it show BUSINESS for nothing, and it can be tough and mean.
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When Daryl and I knew Karen....and, remember, we were just the most casual of acquaintances.....she was NEVER heavy or CLOSE to fat. She was rather pear-shaped, as a lot of women are. As I am, in fact. She was slender from the waist up, and carried most of her weight, which appeared perfectly normal to me, in her hips. When you are pear-shaped, if you are not careful with what you wear, you can APPPEAR to be a bit heavy, especially on television, which can add about 10 pounds to anyone’s frame.
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I believe Karen’s management team suggested to her that she needed to lose some weight so she would “look better on television.” Arghhh!!!! It makes me so angry just to think of it. Karen took that “suggestion” and ran with it, dropping weight like crazy so she would look thin. We watched her shrink, and it was horrifying. She was never, ever FAT!!!!! She was normal. Not good enough for the idiots who advised her.
-
Karen often wore clothes onstage that totally disguised her body. I remember once, when her anorexia was well-entrenched, Daryl and I attended one of the Capenter’s shows in Las Vegas. It was a lovely show, with Karen’s gorgeous, warm voice filling the room. After the show, Daryl and I went backstage to say hello, and as I hugged her, I had to force myself not to let her see the shock that went through me when I realized that all I could feel through her robe was BONES! It was like hugging a skeleton.
-
I left that show so angry, and so fearful for Karen’s health and the future of that lovely person and her exquisite voice. I was angry again, and filled with an incredible sorrow when I learned of her death. She was an artist...she was fragile....and this stupid business, with its focus on superficial things, killed her. Even today, when I hear her voice on the radio, I am filled with a sadness....now muted by time...but still there. She was so young. She could have still been sharing that lovely voice with us today.
-
Well...sorry I had to vent!!! It is no secret I hate the business side of show biz.
August 20, 2006
KAREN AND RICHARD
Karen and Richard Carpenter had been making hits for A&M for a couple of years before we arrived. They were truly “superstars” of the A&M lot. I remember that Daryl and I were so impressed when we saw TWO of the very limited, very precious parking spaces with their names on them. Richard always drove some wonderful, perfectly detailed, shiny automobile. I remember in particular a Mercedes sports car, gleaming patent leather black, often parked in his space.
-
Every now and then, I would catch a glimpse of Karen or Richard, and we would acknowledge each other with a wave or a nod, but rarely did we speak at any length. Karen and Richard were very reserved, and I certainly don’t blame them. At this stage in their careers, privacy was a luxury, and we never wanted to intrude. Also, they may have had reservations about this new “duo” on the A&M lot.
-
We ended up sharing the same management team, and the same wonderful recording engineer, Roger Young. I’m not going to name their managers, because I believe they were at least partially responsible for Karen’s struggle with anorexia. I could be wrong about this, but remember what I’ve told you...they don’t call it show BUSINESS for nothing, and it can be tough and mean.
-
When Daryl and I knew Karen....and, remember, we were just the most casual of acquaintances.....she was NEVER heavy or CLOSE to fat. She was rather pear-shaped, as a lot of women are. As I am, in fact. She was slender from the waist up, and carried most of her weight, which appeared perfectly normal to me, in her hips. When you are pear-shaped, if you are not careful with what you wear, you can APPPEAR to be a bit heavy, especially on television, which can add about 10 pounds to anyone’s frame.
-
I believe Karen’s management team suggested to her that she needed to lose some weight so she would “look better on television.” Arghhh!!!! It makes me so angry just to think of it. Karen took that “suggestion” and ran with it, dropping weight like crazy so she would look thin. We watched her shrink, and it was horrifying. She was never, ever FAT!!!!! She was normal. Not good enough for the idiots who advised her.
-
Karen often wore clothes onstage that totally disguised her body. I remember once, when her anorexia was well-entrenched, Daryl and I attended one of the Capenter’s shows in Las Vegas. It was a lovely show, with Karen’s gorgeous, warm voice filling the room. After the show, Daryl and I went backstage to say hello, and as I hugged her, I had to force myself not to let her see the shock that went through me when I realized that all I could feel through her robe was BONES! It was like hugging a skeleton.
-
I left that show so angry, and so fearful for Karen’s health and the future of that lovely person and her exquisite voice. I was angry again, and filled with an incredible sorrow when I learned of her death. She was an artist...she was fragile....and this stupid business, with its focus on superficial things, killed her. Even today, when I hear her voice on the radio, I am filled with a sadness....now muted by time...but still there. She was so young. She could have still been sharing that lovely voice with us today.
-
Well...sorry I had to vent!!! It is no secret I hate the business side of show biz.
bsbtebkorn
21 Aug 2006
wow is right. that's some pretty deep stuff. gosh, to think of the head games she played with herself......show business can be so cruel sometimes. 
Edited by bsbtebkorn, 21 August 2006 - 10:56 PM.
Edited by bsbtebkorn, 21 August 2006 - 10:56 PM.
JayLumbee
22 Aug 2006
Interesting to read Toni's "inside view" of Karen & A/M. Hmm, wasn't Sherwin Bash the manager at this point?
The media during these years were very very favorable of Cap'n & Tennille. They were the fresh duo on the charts, and the Carpenters were almost past the high peak of their careers.
The media during these years were very very favorable of Cap'n & Tennille. They were the fresh duo on the charts, and the Carpenters were almost past the high peak of their careers.
Pookeysmom
22 Aug 2006
Oh, wow....that just kind of verifies what so many of us have felt, too. That Karen's "management" wasn't interested in her personal best interest...just their own. So sad....Toni sounds really mad, too. 
Thanks for sharing it, Pam.
Cheryl
Thanks for sharing it, Pam.
Cheryl
34rfgyu
22 Aug 2006
It's a pity she didn't name the management concerned. I'm all for naming and shaming, although I would be prepared to believe that the management concerned have their own issues concerning their possible involvement in the outcome of the whole debacle. The karma wheel turns slowly...
Something that has always bothered me ocurred in the early seventies. I used to take up to three music papers a week. The New Musical Express every week and The Melody Maker and The Record Mirror depending on what the features were for that week...
When the Carpenters were playing the Palladium, NME sent resident journalist Charles Shaar Murray to review the show. CSM was only interested in heavy/experimental music, and to send him to a show of this nature was stupid in the extreme, akin to sending me to see Led Zeppelin (there isn't enough money). Well, he absolutely panned the show and the criticism he levied against Karen, for the size of her thighs was unbelievable. There were photographs accompanying the piece and I looked at her slim figure and thought, what?!! I seem to remember him mentioning the audience seemed to like it but his critique was grim...
They had a letters page every week in NME and the week following the gig, this page was full of rebuttals from hardcore fans, overwhelming in their condemnation of CSM's review. I seem to remember a standing ovation of some minutes that was mentioned, and one writer asking why CSM had neglected to mention this in his review...
All these years later, I can still remember the remarks about Karen's weight even though my memory banks are dumping information by the bucket load on a daily basis. I'm sure I can remember an interview with Karen and Richard at a later date, where they addressed the issue of the criticisms they received while they were in England...
I hope Charles Shaar Murray's karma wheel turns faster than most, and I really, really hope his conscience troubles him regularly. Unbelieveably, in those days music journalists had the power to make and or break artists...
Charles Shaar Murray, never liked an album Paul McAbracadabra put out during his thirteen year tenure with NME. I'd always be splittin' feathers before I finished any critique of a new Macca LP. Ahh, those were the days: - )
Edited by Silbee, 22 August 2006 - 01:22 PM.
Something that has always bothered me ocurred in the early seventies. I used to take up to three music papers a week. The New Musical Express every week and The Melody Maker and The Record Mirror depending on what the features were for that week...
When the Carpenters were playing the Palladium, NME sent resident journalist Charles Shaar Murray to review the show. CSM was only interested in heavy/experimental music, and to send him to a show of this nature was stupid in the extreme, akin to sending me to see Led Zeppelin (there isn't enough money). Well, he absolutely panned the show and the criticism he levied against Karen, for the size of her thighs was unbelievable. There were photographs accompanying the piece and I looked at her slim figure and thought, what?!! I seem to remember him mentioning the audience seemed to like it but his critique was grim...
They had a letters page every week in NME and the week following the gig, this page was full of rebuttals from hardcore fans, overwhelming in their condemnation of CSM's review. I seem to remember a standing ovation of some minutes that was mentioned, and one writer asking why CSM had neglected to mention this in his review...
All these years later, I can still remember the remarks about Karen's weight even though my memory banks are dumping information by the bucket load on a daily basis. I'm sure I can remember an interview with Karen and Richard at a later date, where they addressed the issue of the criticisms they received while they were in England...
I hope Charles Shaar Murray's karma wheel turns faster than most, and I really, really hope his conscience troubles him regularly. Unbelieveably, in those days music journalists had the power to make and or break artists...
Charles Shaar Murray, never liked an album Paul McAbracadabra put out during his thirteen year tenure with NME. I'd always be splittin' feathers before I finished any critique of a new Macca LP. Ahh, those were the days: - )
Edited by Silbee, 22 August 2006 - 01:22 PM.
34rfgyu
22 Aug 2006
Upon consideration there is enough money to make me see Led Zep (I'm not a Capricorn for nothing) I should have said, I'd rather stick needles in my eyes...... Eww
Boo
22 Aug 2006
QUOTE(Silbee @ Aug 22 2006, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
criticism he levied against Karen, for the size of her thighs was unbelievable. There were photographs accompanying the piece and I looked at her slim figure and thought, what?!! I seem to remember him mentioning the audience seemed to like it but his critique was grim...
(...)
All these years later, I can still remember the remarks about Karen's weight
(...)
Unbelieveably, in those days music journalists had the power to make and or break artists.
(...)
All these years later, I can still remember the remarks about Karen's weight
(...)
Unbelieveably, in those days music journalists had the power to make and or break artists.
I believe the media and journalists are still like that. Whether the celebrity is "too big" or "too small" is irrelevant, they still seem to know it all and know what looks best. Their ideals are bogus and we see them everyday in newspaper articles and especially in celebrity news magazines.
Do they honestly think that by publishing such things it will prevent the public from "losing control" and gaining weight or "gaining control" and losing weight. I'm sick of reading about celebrity diets that are far from healthy. I'm sick of reading about Nicole Richie and Lindsey Lohan. I'm sick of hearing about how celebrity mothers freak out about their post baby weight and go to the extreme to lose it asap. It all just 
p*sses me off! 
Ok, end of vent.
polarbear
22 Aug 2006
QUOTE(Boo @ Aug 22 2006, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe the media and journalists are still like that. Whether the celebrity is "too big" or "too small" is irrelevant, they still seem to know it all and know what looks best. Their ideals are bogus and we see them everyday in newspaper articles and especially in celebrity news magazines. Do they honestly think that by publishing such things it will prevent the public from "losing control" and gaining weight or "gaining control" and losing weight. I'm sick of reading about celebrity diets that are far from healthy. I'm sick of reading about Nicole Richie and Lindsey Lohan. I'm sick of hearing about how celebrity mothers freak out about their post baby weight and go to the extreme to lose it asap. It all just p*sses me off!
Ok, end of vent.
Do they honestly think that by publishing such things it will prevent the public from "losing control" and gaining weight or "gaining control" and losing weight. I'm sick of reading about celebrity diets that are far from healthy. I'm sick of reading about Nicole Richie and Lindsey Lohan. I'm sick of hearing about how celebrity mothers freak out about their post baby weight and go to the extreme to lose it asap. It all just p*sses me off! Ok, end of vent.
I agree. They're full of
(and I don't use that emoticon often 
).But I thought Nicole Richie's rant at some photographer who kept accusing her of being anorexic was cool:
You don't scream at people that are overweight, so what makes people think that they have the right to scream at me that I am underweight?
"It's upsetting and mean. I am not anorexic. At that moment, I was just sick of everyone constantly bothering me about how I look.
"I walked up to the photographer and told him, 'What if I really had anorexia? What if I had a disease? How would you feel about saying such horrible things?'
"He probably just wanted to get a rise out of me, but I'm a human being and he hurt my feelings."
But yea, I wonder how much pressure Karen was actually under. I mean, we know in general Hollywood is psychotic, but it's hard to know if she was actually told to lose weight. Some sources say yes and others say no. Who knows, really.
Boo
22 Aug 2006
QUOTE(polarbear @ Aug 22 2006, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But I thought Nicole Richie's rant at some photographer who kept accusing her of being anorexic was cool:
You don't scream at people that are overweight, so what makes people think that they have the right to scream at me that I am underweight?
"It's upsetting and mean. I am not anorexic. At that moment, I was just sick of everyone constantly bothering me about how I look.
"I walked up to the photographer and told him, 'What if I really had anorexia? What if I had a disease? How would you feel about saying such horrible things?'
"He probably just wanted to get a rise out of me, but I'm a human being and he hurt my feelings."
You don't scream at people that are overweight, so what makes people think that they have the right to scream at me that I am underweight?
"It's upsetting and mean. I am not anorexic. At that moment, I was just sick of everyone constantly bothering me about how I look.
"I walked up to the photographer and told him, 'What if I really had anorexia? What if I had a disease? How would you feel about saying such horrible things?'
"He probably just wanted to get a rise out of me, but I'm a human being and he hurt my feelings."
I read about that online and she has a good point. I'm just sick of reading about her. We know she's underweight, apparently she's working with specialists, get over it.
I was at WalMart with my mom and sister last week and on the front cover of one of the gossip magazines, I saw a headling (with pictures of course) about Jessica Simpson and her sister Ashlee. It said something like Jess gains 20 lbs and is Ashlee anorexic? I mean, c'mon.
QUOTE(polarbear @ Aug 22 2006, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But yea, I wonder how much pressure Karen was actually under. I mean, we know in general Hollywood is psychotic, but it's hard to know if she was actually told to lose weight. Some sources say yes and others say no. Who knows, really.
I know it's hard to say because when you see interviews with the people she worked with, they all say they were worried about her and she was just bones and blah blah blah. However, these interviews were recorded after she passed away. I mean, they could very well have been told by A & M or someone else to say that they were worried to save their own a$$es. On theo ther hand, their concern could also be genuine.
favorite.songs
22 Aug 2006
Thanks for posting that, Pam. Wow. It's rare that we hear celebrities who were close to Karen speak so candidly. I've always loved Toni. I'm glad that she shares her thoughts with us.
Chris
Chris
34rfgyu
23 Aug 2006
Boo,
News isn't news anymore. It's a combination of entertainment, prefabrication, news lite and health/lifestyle items. Hard news is contrary to the wishes of many a sponsor. Then you have the Newsmakers - politicians, celebrities et al. Credibility is a tough commodity to find no matter where one looks. And it costs more to find it, than the fear mongering News outlets of this day and age are willing to spend...
News is about ratings/paper and magazine sales. It isn't about fact or reality. While I don't appreciate this turn of events at all, I just have to accept this is the way it is, or go and suck eggs: - )
Before the advent of computers, twenty four hour televison, MTV (and it's ilk) information was generated by hardcopy and there were so many publications vying for your pounds, the standard of competition was very high...
I now watch very little televison, at least with a computer I can control the amount of junk I'm being spoonfed and I get the news quicker than my husband who is glued to rhetoric rammed down his throat on a daily basis in between four minute long commercial breaks...
The likes of Lohan, Richie or Hilton bore me rigid. I used to say to my daughter, who is this Paris Hilton? I just couldn't understand what she was famous for, I still can't... An over twenty year subscription to Vanuty Fair was cancelled the month Hilton appeared on the cover...
I don't know if anyone here has seen the picture of Richie going around this week. I saw it through another forums off topic board. Any speculation about her condition is confirmed this week by a photograph in the press of her on the Beach with a minder. She desperately needs an intervention of sorts. From the look of her, she has one foot in a coffin and another on a banana skin. It's pitiful to say the least...
I reckon we could put the world to rights between us, or not!
Sorry Pam, this was kind of 
News isn't news anymore. It's a combination of entertainment, prefabrication, news lite and health/lifestyle items. Hard news is contrary to the wishes of many a sponsor. Then you have the Newsmakers - politicians, celebrities et al. Credibility is a tough commodity to find no matter where one looks. And it costs more to find it, than the fear mongering News outlets of this day and age are willing to spend...
News is about ratings/paper and magazine sales. It isn't about fact or reality. While I don't appreciate this turn of events at all, I just have to accept this is the way it is, or go and suck eggs: - )
Before the advent of computers, twenty four hour televison, MTV (and it's ilk) information was generated by hardcopy and there were so many publications vying for your pounds, the standard of competition was very high...
I now watch very little televison, at least with a computer I can control the amount of junk I'm being spoonfed and I get the news quicker than my husband who is glued to rhetoric rammed down his throat on a daily basis in between four minute long commercial breaks...
The likes of Lohan, Richie or Hilton bore me rigid. I used to say to my daughter, who is this Paris Hilton? I just couldn't understand what she was famous for, I still can't... An over twenty year subscription to Vanuty Fair was cancelled the month Hilton appeared on the cover...
I don't know if anyone here has seen the picture of Richie going around this week. I saw it through another forums off topic board. Any speculation about her condition is confirmed this week by a photograph in the press of her on the Beach with a minder. She desperately needs an intervention of sorts. From the look of her, she has one foot in a coffin and another on a banana skin. It's pitiful to say the least...
I reckon we could put the world to rights between us, or not!
Sorry Pam,
this was kind of
K.F. Carpenter Fan
23 Aug 2006
It does seem that Karen was a lovely person. It was nice to hear Toni's viewpoint. Thanks so much for sharing! 
DR Drummer
23 Aug 2006
That's real interesting but very sad and desturbing info. to say the least. As I've said before from what I believe and have read I think A&M management's treatment and attitude toward the Carpenters was self seving, blind eyed and terrible. The likes of Sherwin Bash, Jerry Moss and others suggest to me their main interest was to keep the money flowing and the Carpenters under their guise.
Also, I've read and listened to quite bit of material to suggest Karen was likely being micro managed, subtley pressured and susceptible to psychological and emotional manipulation. And as was said, the entertainment business can be really abusive, ruthless and manipulative.
Edited by DR Drummer, 26 August 2006 - 08:56 AM.
As I've said before from what I believe and have read I think A&M management's treatment and attitude toward the Carpenters was self seving, blind eyed and terrible. The likes of Sherwin Bash, Jerry Moss and others suggest to me their main interest was to keep the money flowing and the Carpenters under their guise. Also, I've read and listened to quite bit of material to suggest Karen was likely being micro managed, subtley pressured and susceptible to psychological and emotional manipulation. And as was said, the entertainment business can be really abusive, ruthless and manipulative.
Edited by DR Drummer, 26 August 2006 - 08:56 AM.
