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After the recent threads about Karen's album, I thought I would post one to discuss this issue which was mentioned in the Coleman book but which I don't think we've ever discussed in the forum.

Briefly, for those who don't know or remember the details, once the rumblings about Karen's album had begun to surface within A&M, there was this fascinating scenario which developed involving Derek Green, who at that time was one of those in charge of A&M in England. He was invited to the home of Quincy Jones, where Phil Ramone also 'happened' to be present, to listen to the album, which had been 'further produced and further remixed'. Quincy Jones tried to hype the album up and tell Derek Green how fantastic it sounded, but of course Derek stuck to his guns, saying that that he couldn't share their view, that the album was the 'wrong way forward' . And so A&M followed: the record still had to be ''improved.''

Anyway my question is, what on earth did they do to Karen's album to 'further produce and remix it', and what do you think the album and its individual songs sound like? What exactly did Phil do to the album to try and persuade Derek that it was releasable? I also wonder if the re-produced version of her solo album still exists somewhere in the vaults, because when they did this, they probably created a new master tape of it, in the vain hope that it was approved and sent forward for release.

It's probably only the fanatics who will be interested (calling Chris Tassin and Chris Ordinary Fool ), but this has fascinated me for so long and I kept forgetting to post about it to see what you all think.

Stephen

Wait, so is the released one this new one or not?

The version that came out was the original version? So, there is a version of the album with post production sweetening that no one's heard or knows anything about?

Stephen,

My initial thought when I read that from the Coleman Bible was that they had already re-worked it a few times in the studio before it was ever really "heard" by A&M. But now that you're posting this, I think I need to go back and re-read it. I don't know, I was under the impression tha the solo album was reworked several times before it was actually even HEARD as a pitch for release.

OK, I will read/think some more.


Linda

I've thought about this and I don't think that's the case - if you read Phil's liner notes, he said that he hadn't done anything to the tapes, this was the album as Karen originally approved it, mix and all. So the whole remix/reproduce thing must have been a last ditch effort to get them to approve. I think

Well thanks for depressing me even more.




Linda

You're welcome

I still wanna hear the alternate mix of the album though
Edited by newvillefan, 16 August 2006 - 04:30 AM.

Hi Stephen

Wow, that really would be great to hear another mix of Karen's album if there really is one sitting around somewhere. I tend to think as Linda does though. There probably wasn't an entire new mix done as much as it was just the finished version that we now hear that Quincy heard.

It would be great to hear the album remixed though. I do love it, but I wish the mix would sound a little less dry ( for lack of a better word ). I guess I'd like to hear it sound somewhere in between the sound of the original and the remix of "If I Had You" on Lovelines. It goes from having no reverb at all on the original to having a bit too much on the Lovelines album. I sort of think that if the album would have had a bit of a different mix it would have been received better. Heaven knows it had some amazing material on it. I still think "If I Had You" is a masterpiece and a dynamite performance.

Do you all think that we can one day look forward to another release or remix of this album? We can dream can't we?

Chris ( Tassin, not Chris Ordinary Fool )

**sighs over Karen in the stars**


I do your work, Chris!!


Cheryl

Oh Stephen, I can see your thoughts are spining on this one, just like mine. Good catch too, something I had not really thought of till now. It makes me wonder too which version was Karen listening to at the end? Which version of the master tape did she keep at her home to re-listen to and how often did she go back to them? I think more than we think.

It would certainly be a honest question to ask Phil, too bad there is no way of contacting him, he seems disconnected from his audience. I'm sure he is sitting on some stuff that will never be released. Too bad also there is no way to contact Itchey, maybe she could put a little bug in Phil's ear.

Yes, further produced and remixed sure does leave alot open for discussion especially with the fans. Was what we hear today on the CD the "further produced and re-mixed" version? Or the untouched version as stated on the CD insert? Also we forget that the last track (bonus) probably was never meant to be on Karen's album at all, so could another track have been in it's place instead? It also makes me wonder if 1 or 2 songs from the unreleased sessions were ever further produced and we just have never heard them. It's possible.

Wouldn't it have been cool to have an interview (video) of Karen being asked about her solo album, I mean really indept questions possibly when Richard wasn't around (ok I'm being bad) no seriously, the kind of questions that Karen would almost have to answer, instead of just well "we've decided not to go forward with that" I guess Karen was just obligated to not say much or was she just not really asked enough by the press?

Chris(the ordinary fool, not Tassin)

So why do I have a track called "Last One Singing the Blues--REMIX!"

Thank you for starting and quote from Coleman book, Stephen.

I read the liner notes and have thought finished songs and one bonus track.
After I read about original album cover and Chris(the ordinary fool, not Tassin) shared the photo that Itchy had, I started to want to know songs in 1980.

I would like to listen to remixed songs.
Phil Ramone and Quincy Jones?

Studio musicians from Michael Jackson's session.
And Quincy Jones!!?

In '80s interview(probably) Richard said that Karen's solo was not released because of Phil and Karen's schedule. Could Karen's solo be released as original songs, remixed back then!!?


Is the story, when Michael Jackson's "She's Out of My Life" was written, real? Was this song written byTom Bahler?

Sakura

Sakura

You're right, this song was written by Tom Bahler and it was about the girl he was seeing immediately before he started his relationship with Karen.

Stephen