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I was reading (it was in the Yesterday Once More book I think ) that the crtics said that KC & RC lacked "soul" in their music, but compared to ONJ they had loads of it! I thought that was really funny (BUT I don't agree with it. I own every ONJ CD and love every one!) I thought at least the critics found someone else to pick on that day besides Richard and Karen.


(This is off topic comletely but does anyone own Olivia's Come On Over album on CD. I have just got it and on the track "It'll Be Me" there's some kind of poping sound in one part of song. Does anyone else have this problem or is it just my bad luck? I have the import CD from Europe.)

Oh man..... when I hear about some remark like that made from some nobody critics it really scorches my cookies! NO SOUL????!! Unbelievable! Were these people deaf?

I'm trying to understand....but really...just how do these so called "experts" define "soul"? Karen had so much soul in her voice that she brought listeners to tears with just the opening line of a song. And Richard's arrangements were stunning. I just finished re-watching yesterday's PBS retrospective on RC & KC again and I cried after listening to Karen -- again. A "soul-less" singer could never move me to tears.

Forgive me for being uncharitable, but these people were idiots.

As for ONJ, she had soul in her music, but of a different kind. Karen's was a kind of melancholy, a truthfulness and an immediate intimacy into her personal world, a lot of which I realize had to do with the kinds of songs she sang. Olivia's was (at least in her earlier years) a kind of carefree, yet kind of sensual lightness, although she could do bitter ("Jolene") and sad ("Sam"). She could also smolder ("Come On Over") which is one of my favorite ONJ songs.

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Yeah, well, I've always wondered why some critics seem to take the definition of their occupation to mean that they're not "critiquing" unless they're "criticizing".

I can't answer your question someday87 about the Come On Over CD having an audio problem. Is it possible to get it ordered to a local music store and then listen to that track at their audio booth? The only other thing I can think of is to send it back and reorder it again. Hope this helps!

~sweetsweetsmile

Any critic who finds fault in Karen Carpenter has no muiscal ear. How anyone can fail to appreciate the true quality of her voice and singing is musically deaf.
All musicians whether singers or instrumentalists know how rare her talent was.

No soul eh Karen put her soul into every song she sang and from a stricly musical definition just listen to Rainy Days And Mondays and tell me thats not a soul or soulful vocal performance. The key word there is listen apparently they were not listening to the music and or had their ears painted on not to hear soul in Karens voice.

sweetsweetsmile, on Feb 27 2005, 06:39 AM, said:

... Ahhh... that's real funny and made my day (I hope Annie doesn't hear of this, she might break out the fire extinguisher ).

I could't agree more and have railed myself a few times here on the comments of some myopic, vindictive and seemingly moronic music critics; half of which couldn't play a triad on a piano, recognize good singing and harmony or keep time with their pencil.

I hate when people don't know what they are talking about,yet talk anyway. Karen Carpenter had soul!!!! If she didn't, there would have been NO WAY I would have found out about her and noticed her singing when I was 13. At that age, I was the LEAST bit interested in who sang what song I ever heard.

It was the soul I heard in Karen's voice that set her apart from anything I had ever heard in 13 years!! Geesh. And I think she is one of maybe 2 singers that gives off a sense of being honest and GENUINE in what they gave to their audiences.

(end of rant)

I have to laugh...at those that say she had no soul. Of course Karen had soul!! Listen to RAINY DAYS AND MONDAYS, or ORDINARY FOOL or SOLITAIRE, or THIS MASQUERADE, YOUR BABY DOESN'T LOVE YOU ANYMORE, or LITTLE GIRL BLUE or many other songs. THAT girl had soul!! Yes she was not a black artist, but that doesn't mean she couldn't have had soul in her voice. Every nationality it seems loved Karen's voice...proving that her voice was able to get across any sound/race barrier. And they would be able to understand the lament in her voice.

My thoughts,
Cameron

SOMEDAY87, on Feb 26 2005, 10:04 PM, said:

Hi Someday, I am a huge ONJ fan, at what point on the track are you hearing this? I will take a re-listen and get back to you but I have not heard this that I can remember but pin point it for me with time.

Paul Johnson, on Feb 27 2005, 06:34 AM, said:

TOTALLY agree with this, right on Paul.

I wonder where these so called critics are now??

Mikey, on Feb 27 2005, 06:26 PM, said:

Most probaly are back home working on the "local paper"

Karen Carpenter gets even - She's the TERMINATOR OF CAREERS!

I have "Come On Over" LP and CD, both are Japanese releases. I have not felt the problem. She sang "Come On Over" and "Close To You" at my concert.

I think I have read that "(Livin' In) Desperate Times" has a problem on CD "TWO OF A KIND(Original Sound Track)" but LP doesn't have. And the CD was only released in AU. Olivia's DVD released in Japan last year has also problem.
Olivia's CD will be released next April in good price. Hope it will not have problem. Good price series last year included "Physical" and Carpenters' "Love Songs" and "Singles 1969-1973". This time I have not found information about Carpenters.

Background Noise on Carpenters songs was recently discussed.
Olivia's dog Jackson's noise was recorded on Olivia's song. Was it "If Not For You", Chris? You can add "Bless the Beasts and Children".

Topic 'Background Noise And Talking, intentionally included in the recordings'
http://www.leadsiste...?showtopic=2242

Back to topic, in 70's I read an interview with Richard and Karen in Japanese. Richard said "Oliva has soul". Later I read the interview which Someday is talking about. I saw why Richard talked about it.

Back to Olivia, she sang "Slow Down Jackson". And the writer Amanda McBroom and Michele　Brourman wrote a song on "The Land Before Time" in 2003 for her. The DVD finallly was released in Japan last autumn.
We used to see Olivia's photo or video with her dogs or horses. I saw Olivia's photos with dogs and horse on her official site after many years absence. They were taken last Christmas.

Sakura

Those kinds of comments sometimes really get to me too. Interestingly enough they mostly seemed to come from certain segments of the generation who were in their twenties in the 70's who were extremely concerned with being what they thought was "cool". I've heard some rather disturbing reactions to Karen and the Carpenters and I've tried to make sense of it. I remember one man calling the Carpenters music nothing but "elevator music" and a couple of women act like their ears were bleeding upon hearing Carpenters music. I've been asked, "How on earth can you LISTEN to that??"

I guess that the music and sound of Karen's voice must touch off something in them that opens up a place where they cannot bear to go for some reason. It's all just too beautiful, or bittersweet, or too vulnerable, etc. Or is it that Karen and Richard were just average people without some hard hitting negative or aggressive image?

Do they think Karen has no soul because she usually did not belt out when it comes to her style? Was she too simple and soft? If only they would hear what we hear, or admit to hearing it. All the subtle layers of depth and warmth. The sheer beauty. That heartbreakingly gorgeous sound.

All I know is that the sound of the Carpenters and Karen is one of the most incredible sounds I've ever heard on this earth by far.

Chris

Sakura, on Feb 27 2005, 07:18 PM, said:

What was the DVD of? The only ONJ music DVD I have is that cheap
20th Century Master, which just has a few songs.

Well I can theorize that someone might say the Carpenters lacked "soul" because they were so easy to listen to in comparison to whatever else was out there. There really is a simplicity about the songs that could be misunderstood as "fluff". The Carpenters have ALWAYS been under-appreciated because of the historical context of their music. That's my opinion for whatever it's worth.


Linda

SOMEDAY87, on Feb 27 2005, 08:49 PM, said:

I talked about "The Land Before Time" DVD.

"Grease" was released again in Japan last year.
"Xanadu" was released in Japan last year and this first press has noise.
"20th Century Master" was not released in Japan but I read that it was Region Free. You can see Karen's photographer & Karen's songwirter(on glass of studio) and outside of studio of "Hollywood Night" Special on "20th Century Master".

Sakura