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Now that it's evident that Karen was taking Ipecac after her return to CA, it’s now time for me to realize and accept that the Karen Carpenter I know and truly loved began to die in the fall of 1974 and another one, possessed and tormented, reemerged in the early 1975. Nothing or no one was going to stop her from doing what she ultimately did to herself, despite all the family, friends, lovers, success, talent, fame and fortune. Why ?, no one will probably ever know except that she suffered from an insidious and horrid affliction. The poor woman died all alone of literally and figuratively of a Broken Heart and she’s re-broken mine all over again. Very Very Sad Indeed.

Well here are some of my thoughts for what they are worth. It was not a matter of one Karen dying in 1974 and another emerging in 1975 it was in 1975 that her illness became more serious. Karens problems, her torment can be traced back to her childhood so they were with her all her life. She had been dieting many years before she developed her eating disorder. Her Anorexia developed as a result of events throughout her life and Karens reaction to these events. Once Karen developed her eating disorder and the mindset that accompanied it she could not break free of her disease. Karen really needed tratment and therapy much earlier than she got it but it never happened. History being as it was Karen simply lost her battle she could not have gone on the way she was it would have taken a true miricle to save Karen.
Try not to emulate Karens suffering and torment she would not want that for you. We all miss Karen and were greatly saddened by her untimely death. Every so often I shed a tear for Karen because I do greatly miss her but I try to appreciate what she gave me throughout her short life; the laughter, the music, the personality, the drumming, the voice...with Karen the list is endless. Karen was unique and I do love her so.

KAC Fan 4 Life!!!!

Sometimes I dwell on the fact that it was not fair for Karen, or anyone for that matter, to die like that! But as i've said in another post it helps to think that Karen was fated to this and she was meant to leave young. After all I think that she is in a better place than most of us now

[quote name='SOMEDAY87' date='Sep 17 2004, 05:26 PM']
.... After all I think that she is in a better place than most of us now


I Truly hope and pray to God she really is in some eternal place of peace and splendor.

After taking some time to step back , settle with and re-reference the beginnings of the Coleman book, Ipecac's possible use is distinctly discussed (pages 21-24).

Geese', Karen did not know of its toxicity and few people did, mainly the medical-pharmaceutical types. I realize it’s Not her fault as I could Never handle what she went through.

It was wrong for me to portray 2 distinct transformations of Karen and take it all personally. It was more of an evolving, complicated life situation for her. This is something even the Experts have a difficult time understanding.
What a terrible scourge this disease is.

And to those shallow, envious, sanctimonious, scurrilouse critics who berated Karen, I hope you all get yours some day and but good.

I Love this woman more than ever now. And I will continue to play and play to her music and honor her memory with love, admiration and respect (although quite often with a heavy heart). Nothing is going to change that.

Sometimes I wonder if Karen was really aware of how overwhelming her condition had/would become. I think about this because she only alloted 8 months or so to "cure" this problem.
She obviously did not have any intention of dying, yet she was such a goal-oriented person that she
appropriated only a short time to her treatment....Then I wonder how she might view the whole
incident, looking down from up above. I think she would feel most hurt over how her death affected
her loved ones, primarily Richard and her parents, rather than her own self. She just strikes me as that kind of person.

I think she had no idea what she was up against. She didn't understand the severity of the situation. Had she known, I believe she would have made different choices.



Linda

I don't think Karen was truly aware of the gravity of her condition. Anorexia affects judgement in so many ways. There is so much fear around eating and gaining weight that the thought processes go haywire. Chances are that Karen's fear was the biggest motivator to her covert methods of losing any weight she gained in hospital. Use of laxatives, emetics, and thyroid pills.

In one biography I read testimony of one of her doctors who noticed during a visit that Karen was sweating in a cool room, and when he checked her blood levels for thyroid hormone, it was several levels above normal. He called her on it, but she blew him off. Anorexics do that, and you can't blame them, because it's like a different part of them has taken control. I know psychosis is a strong word, but, in essence, that's what it is. And everyone around her wanted to believe she would get better, and she worked hard to convince them she was.

I also agree with Koslo. Karen was very goal oriented, as successful, driven people usually are, and that, coupled with the psychological effects of her disease likely made her diminish the seriousness of her condition, and downplay the time her recovery would take.

Our understanding of anorexia in '83 was practically non-existant, compared to today, and I feel that if this were happening today, Karen might have been saved, because doctors understand MUCH better the hidden and covert ways anorexics avoid recovery.

I am sure the media would be all over the "scandal" - more than they were in the '70's and early '80's. Just think of the way Mary-Kate is portrayed...

Yikes.


Linda

Quote

That incident was mentioned in the Coleman book...it was with Dr.Levenkron, but I don't believe she blew him off. What I read is that he asked why she was sweating when it was chilly and she should have been freezing, and she confessed that she was taking thyroid pills to increase her thyroid. So he was horrified as she was already so fragile (and plus had a normal thyroid and should not have been taking that medication anyway), and told her that he wanted the bottle of pills the next time she came in, and she did bring it in. Apparently the bottle is still on his desk in his office. He consulted with many doctors about this situation and they were also horrified and said that she would never have made it to the bottom of the bottle alive...that it was super dangerous Dr.Levenkron also stated that although she never offered information about her habits in therapy, that she usually would own up to what she did....which I find really sad, actually....because maybe despite all the resistance she did want some taking care of?

I feel so Very badly for Karen and the living horror she was going through. I just want go back in time and hug and hold her endlessly. especially after reading page 301 where she sees herself in the mirror and breaks down and cries and cries.
Why did this have to happen to her ???

polarbear, on Oct 17 2004, 12:45 PM, said:

True polarbear. They want it, and yet they can't give up their control.

~sweetsweetsmile

Sometimes I just have to remember that she died so that others might live! What a beautiful gift to the world, as well as the music!!!

Cheryl

I find I don't really dwell too deeply on her death and the torture she put herself through in her mind and how unwell and sick she must have felt for most of her life. Its too upsetting. She was too good a person to have been afflicted with something so bad, but this is how life can be for everyone.... we all have struggles and challenges. I'm pretty sad she is gone, because she is one of the very few people that I really, really like (even though I never knew her on this earth!) Whenever I see her, I wish so badly she was still here.

My only solace is that Karen is somewhere wonderful and out of that mental and physical torture and has all the love in the world surrounding her for the past 22 years.