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I have always found Evelyn Wallace to be an interesting person, not only for her great and memorable contribution to the fan club but also for her close realtionship with the Carpenters and their family.

It has always struck me that Karen and Evelyn had a very close relationship, not just best friends but also almost some sort of mother/daughter relationship. She did her best to support Karen when she had problems with her family and I believe Karen had great confidence and trust in Evelyn. One issue that comes to mind is when Karen asked Evelyn to bring up the issue of her getting a place for her self which lead to Karen being called a traitor by her mother and evelyn being cut from conversation by Agnes for quite some time.

I wonder why Agnes cut Evelyn from conversation, was it becase she was jealous or something? What do you think? From my point of view, Evelyn certainly didn`t to anything wrong, meddling in something she shouldn`t ect.

One thing that I always think of when reading biographies, hearing from the people around them etc. is that everybody, except Agnes, preferred Karen to Richard and that most people, even those close to them, were amazed how obvious Agnes preferation for Richard was. Really sad to hear and read!

Christan

Do you think that Evelyn is blocked from ever writing or being interviewed about the Carpenter family? Hers would make a most interesting book, indeed!!

Cheryl

Have you noticed that anyone closely associated with the Carpenters has never really talked? I mean nobody - not Evelyn, not the managers, not old boyfriends, not anybody.

Not even their friggin high school teacher let anything slip - I remember someone telling the story that he talked about them in classes with students years later and said 'there's a lot more going on in that family that people realise', but declined to comment further out of respect for Karen's memory.

Now if that's true that IS weird! The only times I can think anyone has EVER talked about them from a personal point of view (i.e. people who were on the inside at the time), are those who have participated in approved documentaries, I'm thinking

Close To You: Remembering The Carpenters
BBC Documentary Yesterday Once More
VH1 Behind The Music

and ALL of these featured Richard and therefore presumably would have been approved by him before being released. (As he obviously keeps a stringent check on everything to do with them, from the music to the book to the tv programmes featuring them.

If anyone remembers that 'Living Famously' programme in the UK, that was NOT approved by Richard, so all they got was archive footage of him talking plus comments from rag newpaper editors and anorexia phychiatrists who claimed to understand what Karen was going through.

So you tell me!!!

Stephen

Stephen,

I remember that quote from the teacher who said there "was more going on in that family than people realize", but he wouldn't elaborate. I just find it strange that nobody has said a word. Not old band members - people from A&M - neighbors - friends. Just like you said - only on documentaries where Richard has approved the material. Very strange .

What do you think was going on Stephen? Like you said it was strange.I can understand that.But what do you think was going on that Richard has kept hidden?

Personally I think that the family unit as a whole was very strange, and I think most of this was fostered by Agnes. The story that Agnes ostracised Evelyn just for suggesting Karen might want to move out, is really weird. No NORMAL person would refuse to communicate with someone except by paper notes only, and when they're all in the same house at the time.

Jus tthink about it, how strange is that?!

I belive Agnes had a lot more control over Richard and Karen behind closed doors than people realise. As for Harold, I just think he went along with Agnes out of love for her. I just feel sorry that, once on his own and after Karen had died, he retired to their music room alone, put on their music, lay down and broke his heart for his daugter.

From all accounts I think Agnes was a woman who was not really capable of showing any sort of emotion, towards her children. And I do think this did them a lot of harm.

Think about sending your kids off to the other side of the world because they have to go work (ie tour) there and NOT give them a hug. Ever. Imagine how many times K&R left Newville and thought about the fact their mother hadn't kissed them or hugged them goodbye.

If they protrayed Agnes as cold and unloving in a film that Richard approved, she must have been 10 times worse in real life behind closed doors.

Stephen

A long time ago i read a letter some woman that grew up in Downey wrote.
She took music lessons with Karen's teacher too. She said that once this teacher told her that all the Carpenter family secrets died with Karen, and never mentioned her again.
No body close to them said anything, probably Richard had them sign those non-diclosure agreements, i mean, why not?

You know what I think is sad? In the Ray Coleman book at the beginning when they interviewed Dr. Levenkron and he was in session with Karen and her Mom & Dad and Karen was upset and crying. Dr. Levenkron had to nudge Agnes to get up and go over to Karen to hug her. It was something she just did not do - no form of any affection. How sad is that?

I just find the entire Carpenters family drama to be too weird at times, there was definately something bad and unhealhty going on there.
I believe Agnes was very cold, almost icy at times. She was, to me, very much a person who cared about how others perceived her and the family and what other people could see was more important than what they could see.

And as for her behaviour toward Evelyn and Karen on the moving out issue. First of all, why be mad at Evelyn and cut her from conversation, what did she do wrong? That is utterly akward and childish! And as for calling Karen a traitor, who could go mad when their 24/25 year old daughter wants to leave home?? That is a normal thing to do, I always found it somewhat weird that they didn`t do it sooner.

Agnes was an overcontrolling person, almost on the border of psychopathic controlling and I am sorry to say that her son was not that much better.

Most of their associates etc. must have been gagged by Richard in some way, there is so much more that they are afraid of telling. I bet Richard also had much removed from Ray Colemans book.

I laughed my head off when I read how Agnes got mad at one of their associates and ended up communicating thru papernotes. Only children behave like that!!

It is all to sad to be put into words, it breaks my heart to think about Karen and how all this affected her. I strongly believe that it was the familything that killed Karen. I also think that is why Richard has such a hard time letting her go, he is filled with guilt as he knows he was also very much responsible for what happened.
He could have backed her more and supported her, and the solo album issues was an enourmous strain on her. Her health got much worse after that.

It must have been hard on Richard and Agnes though, who always thought that Richard was the greatest ever, to realise that Karen was the majority of the reason behind their success and if it hadn`t been for her Richard would have been some rather unknown studiomusician or concert pianist.

Christian

Whooleheartedly agree with your mail. Let's not forget the story of Agnes' tantrum was in tehe book approved by Richard. I sometimes think in the back of my mind that Richard and Agnes were sort of together, many decisions made before Karen or Harold got a second look in.

Also strange how, after meeting Mary who was a lovely person, and Karen was gone (so he was released from the suffocation of being a part of the duo), he went on to marry, settle down ,have 5 children!

Tells you something

Stephen

I agree with you when you suggest that Agnes and Richard had already made up the plans before Karen and Harold were involved.
I bet they also did this with the solo album, they were all against it. Agnes gave Karen hell for the choice of songs which she thought was too sexual. And she couldn`t understand in the first place why Karen was going solo.
Karen was for Richard only and only he should work with her and decide what she should sing etc. Richard was just as controlling as his mother, bet Karen spent many nights in tears over them. That is why I also can see why Todd haynes used Barbie dolls in his movie, Karen was treated like a doll by her family. She should do what the others wanted, not what she wanted.

I think Karens death was an eye opener for Richard and he saw what they had been doing, maybe this made him softer or more humble.
But I bet he is ridden with guilt even to this day for the way he behaved and how he let his mother behave.
My only words are shameless!

Were Mary and Richard going out before Karen died?

I don`t think they were, but I am not quite sure. I believe they started dating some time after Karen died, and if I am not mistaken, it didn`t take long before they were married either.

But can you imagine having Agnes as a mother in law?? My God, I truly admire Mary!!
I am glad to hear that Richards children all seem very happy and I also bet that there is a lot more affection shown in that home. It seems to me that Mary was just what Richard needed and that they have created a good and happy life for themselves and their family. Hopefully I am right.

Yes Mary and Richard dated on and off since 1976, she is seen passing the guys at the airport in the video for 'I Need To Be In Love'. with the little hadnkerchief cap on smiling.

She is his cousin too by the way

Stephen